To a certain extent there is extra counter party risk with ETFs
They added 2 more cryptocurrencies, Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash. However, talking about owning the wallet, Robinhood donāt allow you send/spend the cryptocurrencies you own.
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I think a wider point is that the two options arenāt mutually exclusive, and it doesnāt have to be an either or situation, as evidenced by the fact that 
will offer ETFs and equities brokerage simultaneously.
The key difference between shares/ETFs and crypto is, whilst youāll own the actual securities, they will be held in a nominee account, effectively under a custodial arrangement with Freetrade cf. crypto where your tokens could be held in this arrangement, or you could hold the tokens in your own personal wallet which is essentially what I understood as your preference @Dave.
For anyone in our awesome community that isnāt familiar with Exchange Traded Funds, the ETF scenario is different insofar as you donāt directly own the underlying asset, rather youāll own a share of the fund (the ETF) that holds the actual asset, so you couldnāt hold the underlying token (bitcoin, XRP, etc.) in a personal wallet. The Freetrade team wrote up a handy explainer to ETFs here.
Interesting point! Did you happen to read SEC submission that Cal linked to? Iād be curious to see what their assessment on counter party risk is in relation to that particular ETF. Iāll take a peek if I have the time today!
Wanting to own the actual asset, rather than say a fund or other such instrument is totally a legitimate way to invest, there are countless strategies and criteria specific to an individualās investment goals and risk appetite.
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As good a reason as any to consider the exchange traded instruments over controlling your own keys is the potential tax benefits. XBTās vehicles can be held in a SIPP right now (not advice).
Weāre still some time away from ISA eligibility, not least because any US issuers are unlikely to provide a KID, but Europe shouldnāt be too far behind once the ball gets rolling. Speaking to @rob_h, if XBT were able to list on a higher tier exchange they would be eligible. Right now, theyāre all on the Nasdaq First North, which is a broad equivalent to our AIM, and unfortunately not eligible. Watch this space!
In addition, private key control and custody can be stressful, time consuming and expensive for the individual. We trust institutions with the rest of our [investment] assets, and when theyāre insured with verifiable best practice security in place, Iām sure many would just rather pay for an easy life.
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Completely agree Rik. Crypto is coming and I have personally gained very well from them in my SIPP including returns way beyond any of my stable shares. A balanced portfolio with Crypto is very appealing and this market is going to be massive. Earlier comments that Bitcoin is for drug dealers etc is a very unbalanced comment as the last time I checked you can go and get USD or GBP out of a cash machine and buy drugs right ? Lets see Crypto please, you donāt have to invest in it if you donāt like or understand it. May be a great opportunity for the community to share and educate other members who have no clue in this space.
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While concerns about bitcoin being primarily being used by criminals have been proven wrong now, I think itās perfectly reasonable to raise other concerns about cryptocurrencies. So saying that users who do have āno clueā seems a bit strong. I believe that cryptocurrencies can be part of a balanced portfolio but this is obviously an area with a lot of risk, partly because of price manipulation & potential bubbles (Iām sure I donāt need to provide a link to the latest bitcoin price for the latter).
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Hi Alex, Apologies if that sounded patronising, I literally did mean that a lot of people donāt know anything about this space, myself included 12 months ago. I have learnt so much by attending Crypto events, webinars, reading books, following great YouTubers in this space and following news. My father is a key investor and does not get Crypto or Bitcoin one bit and it has been great chatting to him to get him to understand a little more. He now asks me all the time about the space and whilst he is reserved he is very interested about how this evolves and the successes I have had so far. In fact he normally tells me what the price is now as he always keeps an eye out. Think he is hoping for it to tank so he can say āTold You Soāā¦lol So much to learn in this space and probably many people on here who will have a great knowledge to share.
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Thanks for clarifying that, I guess that just didnāt come across in quite the way you intended 
Iām really hoping that this community will be a place where users with more knowledge can help others to figure out whatās going on here too - itās an exciting space!
Obviously not everyoneās going to be able to get to events but are there any particular books / YouTubers etc. that youād recommend to someone whoās new to this?
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HaHaā¦No worries. I actually went to a CryptoCurrency event held by a guy called Vince Stanzione who is a great guy and well worth a follow on Twitter.
Dominic Frisby wrote a great book called Bitcoin The Future of money which is a great read.
On YouTube I follow these guys
Crypto Dailey is one of the funniest guys and how he makes some of those videos I donāt know, but I am hooked on watching his updates.
I had Bitcoin and Ethereum in my SIPP at the end of last year and bought at $6k for BTC and sold at $12k. Didnāt quite get out at the top but took a nice slice and left half in which I still hold today.
Also invested in $MGTI which is a Crypto miner and the price has dropped from my buy in at $2 down toward $0.90 now. This fluctuates with the price of Bitcoin.
My Ethereum was the big winner, purchased at $270 and it went to $1,400 but I sold out all of my holdings at $1,200 and not got back in on that.
I do also hold $1k of $MTC #Docademic.
I am a believer in the technology and so am happy to #HODL for the long term here.
Looking forward to trading some Crypto with FreeTrade when I get my hands on.
Cheers
Alex
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@bally101 out of interest, what form do your crypto holdings take within a SIPP? I didnāt know you could directly hold cryptos in SIPPs.
@anon2636484 is totally right with regards to price manipulation concerns, and what Iād call an overall elevated risk compared to other asset classes but iām confident that as crypto (as an asset class) becomes better understood and more widely used, in theory better, more robust regulation is likely to follow.
I agree itās too easy to dismiss bitcoin as a tool to facilitate illegal activities, and the underlying technologies present some very exiting opportunities. Freetrade, Robinhood, Revolut et al all have a role to play in driving this normalisation, which should help shake off some of the negative connotations, but the execution will be everything. I have high hopes that Freetrade will get this right against the backdrop of their stated aim to become the best investment platform there is!
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This is required reading for anyone seeking to learn more about Bitcoin and why it was invented. It does not seek to comment or speculate on future prices or adoption (in contrast to the vast majority of crypto resources available online), but instead provides an insight into the concept of āsound moneyā and the basics of Austrian economics in the context of Bitcoin and its refusal to ādieā. Itās also available as an audiobook.
XBT Provider has BTC and ETH exchange traded notes that are SIPPable.
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CTE so it is actually a Bitcoin tracker I have in my SIPP that follows the Swedish Krona.
https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/COINXBT:SS
I did have an Ethereum one that I made a good chunk of money on, although I am not in that now.
When I first purchased these inside my SIPP it was very straightforward, however now they have quite a strict vetting process and send you towards getting financial advice before you can purchase them.
I guess that is good but I found it frustrating as they were asking me to speak with my advisor that set my SIPP up for me who has next to know knowledge of this space and rightly was extremely cautious.
Hope this helps with details of that fund.
Thanks
Alex
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Is it possible to move into the field of cryptoās and list the basic trading pairs of BTC/GBP and ETH/GBP? Or even allowing crypto deposits?
We are moving toward global adoption and I believe this is a perfect pathway to take should all avenues be looked into.
(Note: I am the Founder and CEO of Nimble, with almost 6 years of early experience and a fully fledged registered blockchain company, I am happy to have a chat and provide some insight to save Freetrade time and money, and yes I want to do this for free )
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What makes you think that?
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Yeah I feel that the crypto hype has gone, the Bitcoin bubble has burst and Iād much rather see Freetrade focus on expanding as an investment broker rather than crypto.
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I think it exists as something to trade and make money off, not as a currency. The hype is still there and when the price rises people still pile in.
Iād like Freetrade to offer it as iād like to put a small amount in and see if I can time it. But it doesnāt fit in with their long term investment strategy so Iām not expecting them to add it.
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I think rollout of cryptocurrency trading will depend on where Freetrade see themselves in the market.
If they are to be considered a viable alternative for long term investments, eg competing against other ISA (and in the future, SIPP) providers such as Hargreaves Lansdown, Vanguard, iWeb and AJ Bell Youinvest, then no cryptocurrencies.
If they see themselves jostling for a share of the market occupied by Trading212, Revolut, eToro and other forex type traders, then yes.
As an investor of Freetrade, I would hope it would be the former rather than the latter so that they can concentrate on delivering a premium service for long term investing only, rather than be a jack of all trades (and master of none).
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But if itās not used as a currency, what is its value based upon? I just donāt see why it would attract anyone now that the bubble has burst.
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Personally Iām with you, even if the Blockchain technology is useful, I donāt see how that makes the coins so valuable.
It is going up again however, some people are obviously doing well out of it, but It relies on the old āGreater foolā strategy. The only rationale for buying it is that someone in the future is going to pay more for it. Eventually there is no greater foolā¦
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This is the central problem with cryptocurrencies/cryptoassets. You might say that each crypto is the financialised representation of (and underpinned by) a distributed app that is there to do a job or solve a problem. The challenge is that the distributed apps havenāt proven themselves, or if they have itās in a way that does not make it obvious how you could put a fair value on the related cryptocurrency.
Eg Bitcoin certainly has some success, but it seems to me that its job is āuncensorable payments/moneyā or something like that. Thatās a use which doesnāt seem to be growing particularly in the last few years (someone please correct me if Iām wrong!) That job also got muddied in 2017-18 as investors bid the price up and then everyone stopped using btc as a transactional money to buy pizzas.
Eg the job of Ethereum is something like āa distributed apps that helps you make your own distributed appsā, but again itās a bit unclear what value those distributed apps have yet.
So buying cryptos ends up feeling and looking more like speculating or betting than it does investing. Of course, this could well all change in time, and massively. Just feels like theyāre not there yet. Maybe a government will regulate/constrain the use of its fiat currency to the extent that cryptos take off for transactions.
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