Order Confirmation Screen

I use Degiro phone App and Desktop App, these both have a nice options for limiting the price for selling and buying and quantity of shares.

Is the ISA account any different as I was reading Freetrades Order Execution Policy located here https://freetrade.io/order-execution-policy and presume an Instant order would be the best option assuming that Freetrade displays the current price within a few seconds?

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Hi, placing an Instant Order is identical in both the Basic Account and ISA.

We’ve written extensively elsewhere about our pricing and how orders execute, including an update I shared earlier, this recent post from Adam and our blog on pricing during market volatility.

Limit orders are also on the way.

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@BaxterLeFuture3
I’m staring at the orders throughout the day and I can’t see anything wrong.
I’ve been looking at this for 2 minutes so likely to misreading this but here’s my take…

I’m guessing you were trading around 9am this morning - with your order executed about 09:26 ?
You saw a “price” in the FT app that said “135.22”
That was actually a “last trade” price. Not a “live” buy price.
The 135.22 happened to be a sale. (ie. on the lower side of the spread ie. less than the buy price)
The actual spread of GRFD at the time of that 135.22 SALE was 135.22 to 138.04
So you were seeing a “last price” which was actually a “sale price”
Your order went through at 09:26 for 138
The spread on GFRD at 09:26 was 135.34 to sell - 138 to buy.
You got exactly the buy price.
I see no issue here.
(you have to watch out for trading - even these relatively liquid SETS stocks around key times of day too - you’ll get swept up in the auction process and might the “uncrossing” price. It can work nicely for you… or sometime it might not… either way, that’s for another day. )

In summary: I don’t see anything here. You were looking at what was effectively a sell price - from a few minutes before you traded a stock that was relatively volatile.

Apologies if I’ve completely misread this. If I have misunderstood disregard my rant. If I haven’t misunderstood please google around about bid/offer spreads, market makers obligations to provide a firm quote for 15 seconds, LSE auction mechanisms etc. Nothing is every as clear cut as it seems but FT is not out to get you. Best Execution rules cover you. FT route your order via an RSP (a techy gateway to send orders to market makers). By the very fact they route orders RSP means it is (unequivocally and undeniably) “best execution”. The FCA and FSCS say so. I promise you. I’ve had it tested a few times. :wink:

But none of this negates the need/desire/certainty of having FT display a firm market maker quote pre execution - with a nice little second delay that HL et al do - as they are able to do so as MM’s are obliged to hold that quote for that time. If nothing else a live quote would kill these persistent queries.

#datavendorcharges
#youwonderwhytheLSEwantedRefinitivfor£32bn?

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I meant the limit orders, but now I voted for this as well.

Nope sorry dude wrong on that one. Ive replied to everyone else the info is there. I was using a live market tracker through an app (not delayed) i also set up a trade on HL to confirm the price at exactly the same time. Market price was 135.22.

FT estimated 1.37 as it never goes to enough decimal places anyway. Then when it executed i was charged at 138. The market price didn’t actually return to 138 on the live market for another 1hour after which means FT either were using an old market price which it was before my trade.

I was watching intently to make sure I bought in a dip but obviously that didn’t work out again.

Like i say, if HL were able to offer me a confirmed price at 135.22 and it took me less than 10 seconds to move back to my FT app and press trade I’m not wrong on this.

Lots of other people also aware of this situation.

Someone in the know has confirmed limit orders are coming and this will hopefully sort the problem.

But a confirmation screen with a confirmed quote held for 15 seconds like other sites would be best and is possible.

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But I don’t know all the workings behind the seen and it may be to do with HL being a bigger company and sucking up the difference between quote and execution which evens out for them across all traders throughout the year?

Anyways it doesn’t matter I’ll just wait until I know i cant sell at a loss and work like that until the limit orders arrive.

Thanks for the information.

Effectively need live prices closer to google and limit order functionality should be available. If there is anyway Freetrade could do DMA, that would be amazing but I guess it would be too much to ask for retail investors.

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You can DMA as a retail investor. I’ve done it on IG

That would be great if freetrade can add same.

Most people in this community understand the spread and average pricing. But as this app is mainly aimed at getting the masses (investing n00bs) involved in the stock market, will they not recoil at purchasing something for more than they expected?

Will it not feel like they are taking 3 apples (advertised at £1ea) to the till and being told they have no change from a fiver, oh and they only actually got 2 apples! There’s a risk of them being put off, or at least confusion (as we have seen here).

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If it were possible to get a 15 second order confirmation (with Proceed/Cancel option) as the Beast of Bristol allows, this would be appreciated. Thank you.

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From my perspective (started as a n00b November 2018 with Freetrade), no. Whilst ‘trade’ appears in the name, the company is clearly geared towards helping people invest in the long term. If I’m buying shares each month and they’re a few pence out from when I confirm the order myself to when it gets confirmed back to me, I don’t really care, as I’m holding on to those shares for a long time.

If you’re using FT to do day trading, you’re risking your own profits knowing that pricing isn’t necessarily ‘live’.

Having said that, a 15 second order confirmation screen would be a game changer for FT though, and would then immediately suit both long term investors and day traders (and those who want to dabble in both).

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I honestly don’t know where you’re going with this.

Your order is routed to market when you instruct it.

It is routed via an RSP.

This is therefore “best execution”.

The price you got therefore was the price at that intra-second moment in time.

I do not dispute HL offer price improvements. I’ve tested HL a lot this morning and they offer a price improvement on most trades.

I’d be surprised if they offered THAT much price improvement , but I remain open to the possibility.

That said. You got the market price at the intra-second your order went to market.

That’s not to say the FT price isn’t misleading. It kinda is. It’s a guide. It’s a last price. That should be changed to prevent the risk of confusion. But any implication you’ve somehow been wronged or screwed over is categorically incorrect.

If you traded anytime around the 9:30 mark like I quoted then the offer price did return to 138.In fact it WAS 138. The bid was 135

This was your trade being reported through the LSE. It shows a bid/offer of 135.34/138.

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Like i said in my reply im not laying blame on FT or trying to imply being screwed over.

I’ve never said those things, just that its not great and confirmed quotes like HL would be better.

You seem to know more than me so can I ask.

You see how 14 seconds after my trade there is also another trade for buy similar amounts but its at a much better price but its type says ‘AT’ whereas mine says ‘O’

What does this mean?

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No worries

The 14 second later trade had a narrower spread - just the luck of the draw I’m afraid. But you’re right - it was an AT trade, so a little different from your O trade.

Regarding O vs AT trades - it’s a little complex but in essence you either have access to the order book you place orders on (think of them like a limit price) and when an opposite side (a buy for a sell and a sell for a buy that meet each others price criteria) they execute - automatically, hence the “AT” (automatic trade) notation.

Ordinary (or “O”) trades are those executed by going straight to a Market Maker for the best price at that moment.

So, AT - two electronic orders sitting there waiting for each other “matched”. Or, O, you went straight to a Market Maker and took the best price.

As a retail client it is possible to get access to the order book - but it’s kinda unnecessary unless you’re relatively experienced and usually happy to pay the market data fees associated with this access. Alternatively people like DeGiro do actually place orders on book - when you set a limit. So you kinda get access via the back door - but for a price.

If I’ve made a complete hash of that explanation I apologise.

I remember learning about this stuff 20 years ago (I’m old!) and a great learning resource was Sharepad and sharescope. Google them. They produced a few books and videos that explain “Level 2” and some of the quirks of the LSE trading segments.

Hope that help. Maybe it doesnt

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Helps me a lot, thank you.

Yeah man, that really helps kinda puts the cog in the system that my brains imagining.

Seen as most of us are in lockdown I’m gonna go watch/read the things you suggest as well.

Looking forward to limit orders when they come through.

Thanks for the explanations im sure theres more than just me thankful for it.

R.

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We just added a really interesting stock to the app - Augmentum Fintech.

It’s also interesting for this discussion as it is thinly traded compared to FTSE 100 companies and you can get a sense of the bid ask spread in the 1-day chart.

Showing one mid price works fine for the liquid stocks with a tight market spread, less so for an example like this. We’re looking into how we can improve the UX when buying stocks like this, but for now you can have confidence that you are getting the best price available when using Freetrade, and your order is going to the same group of RSPs/market makers that incumbents like Hargreaves Lansdown use.

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Not sure if the price confirmation screen is being worked on but seriously needs to be added to Freetrade. I will have to stop using Freetrade due to what happened today.

Estimated price was £1.55 and yet bought at £1.70. I wouldn’t mind if the volatility was there but looking at the graph I was the only sucker who paid £1.70, then it moved back down to 160 where it was bouncing between the bid/ask.

How can people trust Freetrade when it’s a complete gamble as to what price you are getting - its basic. Forget the pretty chart! Also the argument that Freetrade are getting the best prices doesn’t tie up to the graph…!

Chart|317x500

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Is that volume at the bottom? looks like quite a lot of “suckers” paid £1.70

I agree we need a confirm screen though