Revolut Trading šŸ¦…

Iā€™ve said as much here. The more public attention drawn to cheap / free investing the better.

As for shots against Revolut, many people come here, amongst other things, to find out about the nuts and bolts of building a stockbroker.

A core part of our narrative is identifying, explaining and educating on why incumbent stockbrokers are not doing as well as they could for their customers, and especially millennials. If I can find synergies in this with the approach of other fintechs (as I have ad nauseam on robo-advisors), I think it is worth pointing out.

5 Likes

Thanks - good to know. Not an active user myself, but that may change when they offer crypto as cashback on card purchases (rumoured feature).

1 Like

And also connect into the likes of Xero and Sage to do the backend accountingā€¦

1 Like

For sure, youā€™ve presented the kind of rational evaluation I would expect from someone engaged in building a stock trading product. Your linked comment was a good read, also.

My comment was more aimed at the tribalism that occurs in any comment chain where Revolut are invoked in the name of ā€˜competitionā€™. Itā€™s not helpful - thereā€™s much that can be learned from other products, and certainly no reason why we canā€™t make use of both.

3 Likes

As @adam said, we had showed a sample of the market, but Revolut had not announced their plans at that point. And itā€™s not really good form to sort of leak someoneā€™s plans (EDIT: especially if not confirmed), while they surely prepared a baller accouncement for what would be the right time for them (and they just did it in Amsterdam now :clap: ).

Nevertheless, we tend to be extremely transparent, so Adam was very clear in his Forbes interview in terms of where weā€™d expect more meaningful competition from:

3 Likes

Shareholder interests trump ā€œgood formā€ surely? :smile:

I hate to say ā€˜I told you soā€™ but I began the Revolut Wealth topic agreeing with @adam comments in that interview but nobody was willing to consider Revolut as a viable threat.

@dan this sums up Revolutā€™s model to a T. Low hanging fruit, white label products provided by others, who will take their cut a long the way.

But reading between the lines, it feels like speed to market is more important than doing things ā€˜the right wayā€™ cf. Monzo, who came under heavy, sustained criticism for not ā€˜innovatingā€™ hard or fast enough. Whilst Revolut was charging a lead and offering a racy basket of products, Monzo was building a bank (in the regulatory sense) from the ground up, to provide an agile yet robust core product. To me thatā€™s the real innovation, as opposed to sticking your UI on top of Mambu (looking at you N26!)

As @freetrade_cal pointed out

and ( incoming :bomb: ), offshoring their banking authorisation to a potentially less robust regulatory environment. Revolut certainly arenā€™t alone in this m.o. but again, a picture of shortcuts emerges.

Does this even matter to customers? The honest answer is probably not to most people. But for me getting the essentials right is important, and is certainly not incompatible with building innovative, paradigm shifting businesses that are in it for the long haul - as customer and investor thatā€™s where I see value.

Totally, and they are seemingly doing astoundingly well from valuation, transaction volume, and customer acquisition perspectives, and this should be recognised and congratulated. But customers, investors, markets, people essentially, can be fickle things. Clearly, Yuri Milner knows something I donā€™t :sunglasses:

Also, I canā€™t speak for anyone else, but I donā€™t necessarily consider the comments and criticism as taking shots per se. Itā€™s really all part of a robust conversation around an incredibly exciting, fast moving industry. A point I make quite often is that as customers of, and investors in these businesses, itā€™s important we have visibility and understanding of how they operate and the potential ramifications of their choices they make. Itā€™s not a game, itā€™s ultimately peopleā€™s money and their futures.

7 Likes

No need to wait for Revolut, this oneā€™s for you @freetrade_cal !

3 Likes

They operate a freemium model with many customers willing to pay for the premium product. Are these also ā€œlow hanging fruitā€? I would say no.

The jury is out on what they ā€œright wayā€ will be or even if there even is one way of disrupting an industry. I just have a strong dislike for those who praise Monzo and simultaneously discount what Revolut are managing to do.

Is Lithuania a less robust regulatory environment? Theyā€™re a member of the EU which is more than can be said for the U.K. next year.

And they can even be more sticky. The Big 4 oligopoly in professional services, the Big 6 energy suppliers, The Big 4+ legacy banks, the Magic Circle law firms, etc all benefit from customers not being ā€˜fickleā€™ enough.

There are definitely thinly veiled & often quite explicit shots imho (more so in the Monzo Community where tribalism is noticeable). The debate here is somewhat robust so far and Iā€™m hopeful this wonā€™t turn into an echo chamber of groupthink as it grows larger.

1 Like

Yes, it is. Itā€™s described as a ā€œfavourable regulatory environmentā€ if youā€™d research it.

Itā€™s exactly because the debate is robust that we donā€™t think weā€™re going to be anything like an echo chamber. Itā€™s not an echo chamber when a majority of people seem to agree on a view for well-argued reasons but also willingly engage with the counter-argument.

Revolut has some awesome things going for them (round 1 investor here :raised_hand: although I sold my shares since). I like their velocity. But we think very differently about

  • focus
  • building fundamentals
  • aligning with our customers

, and a host of other things. Which is fine. And if you prefer their approach, thatā€™s fine too - Iā€™m a Monzo fan, and the above comes across a bit like:

giphy

7 Likes

And this doesnā€™t come across as (insert your exact same dog gif here)?

Pot calling the kettle black.

@CTE apologies if my response was interpreted as a rebuttal. This wasnā€™t my intention at all; please donā€™t take it that way or anybody else. Iā€™m all for civil debate which I thought my response was. Apparently Iā€™ve appeared to have crossed a line. Will take it on board.

Btw Iā€™m also a Monzo fan, but my point was I donā€™t let this obscure my judgment like some others do (my observation of strong selection biases, not an attack). There is a subtle difference between brand loyalty and rose-tinted glasses that some super fans in the Monzo community wear. I was speaking generally and wasnā€™t referring to CTE as one of those people just to clarify. But hey, this is just my opinion.

This is invetiable in my opinion as itā€™s the Freetrade community. Iā€™m sure you wouldnā€™t claim not to be biased in Revolutā€™s favour in this point either. But if we accept the fact that some users here have a personal preference & stick to discussing the merits of different ideas / facts - both positive & negaive - about the different offerings then I donā€™t see why that should be a problem :slight_smile:

1 Like

This is your favourite line :joy: Glad youā€™re back ahem but as you know we donā€™t see eye to eye (previous in the Monzo community) so Iā€™m not going to go off topic anymore than we have discussing this.

Iā€™ve said my peace. I believe this community is great; I was just talking about being mindful of groupthink in the future as it grows. Anyhow this is something for you as forum leaders to figure out and Iā€™m sure youā€™ll get the balance right :slightly_smiling_face:

2 Likes

The answer to all your problems. Invest in all three. Monzo, Freetrade and Revolut. There will always be more than one player in the market, and as of today, in the disruption play, all three are on my watch list.

Just hanging out to get on to the Freetrade platform and start investingā€¦

5 Likes

This is official.

A quote to answer some questions in this topic:

ā€¦In the meantime, it plans to launch the share trading service in the next four to six months in partnership with an established brokerage, shouldering the cost of commissions it pays on behalf of its usersā€¦

Can we create a closed channel on the forum to discuss sensitive questions (like this one) for the investorsā€™ eyes only? I have some thoughts on this but am hesitant to share since there is no privacy. What do you think?

1 Like

@szb We are big fans of transparency, so as a first step, maybe just DM me what youā€™d like to discuss.

Most probably itā€™s something we can publicly debate.

Iā€™m actually excited for this to launch, and itā€™s a big testament that, after what comes across as a relative (compared to the space) lull in crypto, this seems to be considered as a growth engine.

Now, ā€œpartnership with an established brokerageā€ is not how we think about building a product that really solves a problem on a deep enough level. No need for more middlemen in my view.

Also, as you are an investor, please DM us your email you registered with on Crowdcube, so we can give you a badge.

6 Likes

Partnership with an established broker?! And shouldering the cost of commissions?

Thatā€™s surely an unsustainable business model? Watch CAC go up once againā€¦

I love Revolut, but Freetradeā€™s model is far more profitable and sustainable.

7 Likes

That adds weight to my theory that this will be a Premium subscription only service (as they have to cover that cost), which would limit the number of users that use it.

2 Likes

That would still be a lot of expensive services (including the FX and free insurance from a partner) rolled into a Ā£6.99/month account. Not sure but think it would just marginally cut the cost to them, not cover it

2 Likes