Trading 212

I’ve heard this argument on the Starling forum and on the Monzo forum re their offerings.

“They’re bigger”.

“They’ve got unlimited money”,

“This service is better”,

“The competitors, they’ll catch up”

Freetrade has achieved what the big boys can do in a couple of years. Imagine what they could do in the 15 years T212 has been running.

Don’t panic.

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We can’t say what future holds, I hope FT makes it big and I get my money back.
What I can do is compare both platforms based on features that exist now and I’m not happy with the pace of FT.

I recall FT moving to serverless etc which end user doesn’t really care but it should in theory help them to scale based on load. And I read message about moving processing of basic orders to 3pm :confused:

My friend who is also investor in FT prefers T212 :no_mouth:

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Money back? We’re going to the moon :rocket:

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like TSLA at $4000 with million robotaxis :joy:

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Yes, and those are very pertinent arguments. Having more money and being bigger are extremely important, particularly as more and more established companies enter the market.

It’s not a question of competitors catching up - they’re already ahead of Freetrade and that’s the problem. From being in a position about a year ago of marketing themselves as the only transaction-free UK broker and the only one who will have fractional shares, Freetrade now doesn’t seem to have any USP in my eyes. They’ve been overtaken by others and when being fee-free and offering fractionals etc becomes the norm, it’s going to be much harder to compete when you haven’t got the marketing budget and large established brand and user base.

Having a USP is great and is a big advantage - but in any market it only ever lasts for a limited amount of time. There will always be competitors coming along and eventually your amazing USP which caused a lot of excitement eventually becomes industry-standard. In that short window where you have an advantage you’d better grow and improve massively or you’re in trouble when the big boys come around as they surely will.

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6 posts were split to a new topic: The Basic Order execution time moved to 3 PM. Give us feedback!

The old saying that “if something is too good to be true” applies here.

I gave it a shot because I had an invite link, but the spreads they’re charging are insanity.

I went back to :freetrade: like a boomerang.

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From Ivan Ashminov on the Trading 212 community in response to a question as to how T212 make profit ( I wouldn’t normally cross paste but I think it’ll be of interest to this forum :thinking: )

Trading 212 is making money from its CFD business where the main revenue comes from spread and interest swap.
As our Invest service grows, we will be able to monetise some of its advanced features but monetisation is not our priority at the moment. Our top priority is to provide an insanely great service, completely free.
Other platforms claiming to offer free trading either provide significantly inferior service (e.g. the free trades are not instant but executed at the end of the day) or are limiting the number of free trades. And all of them are burning VC money.
We have been profitable for the last 15 years (if that is of concern for the long-term investor).

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Yes, but if they do it all for free, what are their incentives? I mean, are they just running it as a loss leader in the hopes that it’s going to convert people to the CFD product sooner or later? If so, would you expect to be nagged, sorry, guided, every now and then to buy CFDs?

If not, and invest keeps scaling up, and its costs also keep increasing, what are they intending to do then?

Fair but not relevant.

Assuming you are 100% correct and they have no humility. They are still they cheapest yet most progressed platform available in the UK.

What’s relevant to me, personally, is results.

And I don’t mean to bash FT but T212 are obviously very aware of them. So FT needs to be aware of T212 and develop a competitive service.

I still recommend FT to people, but it seems like T212 might fee war them

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I’ve been with T212 for just over three months and have heard nothing from them that didn’t relate to my Invest account ( that might change obviously ).

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From T212 forum

We are working on something big that we will release in March. It will be a surprise and will add an entirely new dimension to our product for the long-term investors.

In the meantime, here are a few things that are coming very soon:

- Recurring deposits
- PayPal integration
- Direct debit
- Company fundamentals

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Hmm, I wonder what that could be, automatic dividend reinvestment maybe? :thinking:

I’m not sure. I hate saying it but they are leaving FT for dust at the moment. But I’m sure that when Invest platform launches it’ll soon catch up.

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I too read Victor’s twitter. Along with T 212 product team it looks like. They must be afraid.

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Dividend reinvestment is very basic thing, I’m guessing it will be like create your own index kind of thing with your own weights and sipp it. Or something like choose a predefined portfolio with auto rebalacing.

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I mentioned before that T212 seem to be very aware of FT. I believe I understated that.

I think they literally watch this forum :joy:. I’m sure the new T212 surprises will drop at around the same time as FT Invest.

Looking at the way T212 rapidly add fractional shares on request has lead me to think that it’s a very clever marketing stunt. They could probably flip all shares to fractional within minutes at this point, but instead they are soaking up good will from the community by doing them on demand.

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:joy:

Literally no one looks at the bid ask spread on this forum?

T212 charge double what I see at my other broker. That’s how they make money.

Legal documents for the Invest account (not the CFD!) - Order execution policy: https://www.trading212.com/en/Order-Execution-Policy

Emphasis from me:

Costs: Our charges may be incorporated as a mark-up or mark-down (the difference between the price at which we take a principal position and the transaction execution price with you). The Company’s price quote in many markets already includes our spread and there will be no additional fees or commissions due from you.

So, they are legally covered: they charge spread, they just don’t tell you.

The Company’s charges are not taken into account in determining the best execution prices.

So they detemine the best execution price and slap the spread on top of it.

Freetrade meanwhile confirmed many time they don’t make money on spread.

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That’s because Trading 212 is just a white label of Interactive Brokers. Check their execution reports and you’ll see that 100% of their stock trading is done through IB’s US entity. You’ll also see that all of their CFD trading is b-booked - ie. they are the counterparty to all of your trades.

I cannot see why you would invest with a company that is based in Vanuatu / Bulgaria - with ‘offices’ in the UK that are effectively there for show.

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I tested a simultaneous buy ( GSK ) on Halifax / T212 - Quotes as below:

Halifax : 1795.98
T212 : 1796.1

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