🌲 Green investing 🌲

look at Solar ETF - TANN & distributed renewables - DGEN

2 Likes

Great thread. Been going a bit green myself lately. Plenty of upcoming IPO listing that I’m looking forward to, but plenty already out there.

Right now one of my favorites is Eqtec who create energy from waste,

Some of the upcoming Ipo’s I’m looking out for are

Technology Minerals
Pod point
Britishvolt

2 Likes

The L&G Clean Energy ETF ( RENG ) is an alternative to iShares INRG ( Plus only ).

3 Likes

Really interesting article, especially the aim of 5 Unicorns by 2030 and 20 by 2040! Could be some good investments here. :+1:

2 Likes

This could kick start some big investments and also some SPs going up as people try and get on the waggon. Certainly going to be an interesting few months in the sector. :+1:

Not mentioned in the article but on the live broadcasts it seems hydrogen is getting a lot of backing as well so may effect companies like ITM.

1 Like

Can we please add Rize Sustainable Future of Food ETF: Ticker FOGB

https://community.freetrade.io/t/rize-sustainable-future-fogb-share-chat/32974

40+ Holdings Top 10 include Beyond Meat, Tattooed Chef, Oatly etc.

2 Likes

I have added all I can from the above comments and will continue to until it says no more can be :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like

If possible under Food catagory: Ticker BHIL

Benson Hill - Plant to Plate Scientists

1 Like

Looks like more investing in more companies is going to get, a little bit, greener.

1 Like

But what does it mean to be “green”? I think you’re just using fashionable cliches.

It’s a fairly broad and protean designation. Who defines what is “green”? And who measures it?

To me, it smacks of self-righteousness. I think it’s fashionable frenzy and fad, a cool phrase that sounds vaguely respectable but ultimately it’s totally hollow - like snake oil salesman it’s all about hype, the excitement and the image. For me, the critical question is return on investing capital. I leave this loading PR expressions for someone else.

I think people who buy Green ETFs have absolutely no idea what the ETF contains. No idea . They only buy it because it contains the label “GREEN” on the label which is the contemporary panacea in investing. It doesn’t seem very intelligent to me.

As for Tesla - maybe a great company (??) but it’s a dreadful stock. The most overvalued in the market. And why? Hype and PR.

I am sorry but I’m very sceptical of this “green” investing. I don’t think anyone knows what it means - but they’re just running with the fashionable crowds thinking they’re doing something great. How much bitcoin does Tesla own? How much CO2 is pumped out of their buildings to construct cars? Is there really any “green” company?

3 Likes
2 Likes

Fair enough, you are entitled to your views :+1: Me personally, I would prefer to invest, not exclusively, in a company that does say 40-50% green than a similar one that does 0%. Not sure what cliches I am using as it is only a thread for links etc but fair enough.

My Freetrade shareholding is 600% up. Wish all my stocks were as ‘dreadful’.

4 Likes

@DrunkenMonkey sometimes it’s hard to understand other investors’ motivations.

Mine: I want to invest for my family’s future and for me that means return and my family having a world they can live in. I want to do something about climate change, and making my money greener feels like a way to do that. I am comfortable giving up some return if other criteria are met. I understand that the “ESG” label gets put on many things as a marketing ploy, but I don’t believe that that on its own means I should avoid greener investing.

I don’t know enough about Tesla to comment on it (though its return on capital seems pretty good the last couple of years I guess?). So to take a different example, the SUUS.L etf - you can look up its sustainability metrics - there are published methodologies etc. Yes, these metrics are non-financial, yes you can argue that they’re bogus metrics. But I’m happy investing in it.

Fair enough if you’re only interested in return on capital. One investment consideration might be whether carbon-intensive assets face being abruptly “stranded” in future - a sudden, irreversible loss in value if the world does successfully turn away from those assets and towards things that are greener.

5 Likes

Yes.

1 Like

This is a great topic to start. Let’s not engage in philosophising like the drunken money above. Let’s keep it pragmatic, there is a world of investment opportunities now that are focused on solving the climate crisis, the biodiversity crises and other environmental concerns eg plastic. Putting your money along with millions of others as well as institutional investors into these rather than fossil fuels companies etc. lowers the cost of capital for companies that improve the planet and increase the cost of capital for companies that harm it.

PS anyone else invest in clim8? They sent out a very positive investor update today

5 Likes

Haha. Good luck in your investments. I do wish you well, of course. I know that may not come across in my post. I think I was caught in a moment of irascibility … A bit grumpier that day than usual , so my keyboard took a beating.

Let me know if you’re interested to chat more. My impression - taking a broader perspective of the changes our society has undergone - is that the huge leaps in industry & technology kind of occur spontaneously without a single governing force. The kind of green changes that green investors wish to promote occur less because of their investment - than by a kind of organic breakthrough in a new frontier. A sort of diffuse intelligence. I suspect the next wall is nuclear power (have you seen the kind of stuff Bill Gates has been funding and organising? It’s a very promising alternative to coal…).

1 Like

That’s great. I am happy that you’re doing well, and I bear no ill-will. If I was you, I would sell it, and lock-in those gains. I’m sure you think I am absolutely insane for saying this, but I’ll write a bit more on this. Feel free to ignore, but I hope (at the least) it prompts some discussion and thought.

Tesla’s meteoric rise to a trillion dollar valuation reflects a perception about its future value. People buy TSLA stock at these prices because they believe that the stock will grow at a much higher rate. So, in five-years it will be 3x. Ultimately, of course, nobody can prognosticate. Its future value is unknown at this point. Sure, Tesla is very innovative, with a wonderful brand with a technological head-start over competitors. But there are some serious reservations, that I think people should have. I don’t like the fact that they have been consistently and repeatedly diluting their shareholders, for example. I think that’s awful.

And I don’t trust their finances. They have removed some 6 CFOs. CFOs don’t seem to last a quarter at Tesla. Big red flag. There is a pending lawsuit concerning the acquisition of Solar City which seems to have been a fraud. You can’t hide financial losses through an acquisition of a company which Musk just happens to be the owner of. Dishonest and sketchy - Enron-y financial chicanery. They’ve almost gone bankrupt several times but were saved because we’re in a huge inflated bond-market bubble (and, probably, stock market) in history. They have had almost no operating income until just recently. Former profits only came from tax credits (yes, government handouts - which are called regulatory credits aka. carbon credits). So, they were selling cars at a loss for years!. And, I think Elon is a glorified pump-and-dump celeb for dog-inspired coins for the get-rick-quick crypto crowds.

Tesla share are growing quick. But is it worth a trillion dollar valuation? It may be the only large-scale EV producer – but it has had production consistently constrained, and where its competitors are easily only a few years behind them with their own scale manufacturing plants, battery logistics, and infrastructure etc… What is the car (or “auto”) industry like? Telsa will never really getting anything close to 25% market share of cars. Never. Read this article. Plus, the current market environment: liquidity is very high and interest rates are near net zero. The stock price is pure euphoria and optimism. It’s totally detached from reality. People buy Tesla stock not because the company fundamentals are strong - but because they expect it to go up tomorrow for a quick 5% gain, ad infinitium.

These are some of my thoughts.

6 Likes

Hello rod,

Thanks for replying.

Well, I think that if you want to do something about climate change; then more power to you. You can go out in you local community and help out. Whether its raising awareness on the ridiculous overfishing that’s happening all across the world’s seas and oceans, or fighting to increase greenbelt lands, or opposing new runways. But, I don’t think you get to have green credentials merely because you own “green” stock. I am a capitalist - just like you. I expect (like you and everyone on this forum) a return on invested capital. Of course, I would like to associate with companies that conduct themselves in ways that most people would regard as proper and decent. But that’s not making change in the world. Making changes to the world really comes from consumers. You can invest as much as you like in some new green biodegradable phone (just as an example) but that means nothing if consumers up-and-down the country don’t also start changing their habits. When you buy a stock or a share of a business, you are the owner of the business. As a capitalist, you are essentially providing the consumers with goods and services that they want. You aren’t saving the planet - they are.

ESG investing doesn’t affect anything meaningful in the world. It just allows people to pat themselves on the back. It doesn’t actually reduce prices for the “bad” companies as the stock will be picked up on the other side of the trade - a la the efficient market hypothesis.

Thank you for the link on the ESG score sheet. I will read it in more detail, but my cursory reading feels me with more misgivings. According to that site, it says:

  1. Screens out exposure to companies involved in industries such as Controversial Weapons, Nuclear Weapons, Tobacco, Civilian Firearms, Conventional Weapons, Alcohol, Gambling, Adult Entertainment, Nuclear Power and Genetically Modified Organisms.

But, you can add soda drinks, sugary-foods, social media companies, fast food companies (like Deliveroo), banks that regularly get caught red handed (e.g. LIBOR scandal a few years ago). The list goes on. There are loads of things that people consume that aren’t all that strictly good for them.

Trying to be morally high-minded is probably exhausting? You can draw some ethical bounds (cheating & lying, for example), but it’s probably better to effect change by getting good markets returns and then actively donating to worthwhile causes. Investing is best done based on fundamentals and substance.

My fear is that these green ETFs are part of a Wall Street PR-spin bandwagon. Like the “organic foods” label, ESG investing is a way of sell more product by making people think they’re making heroic changes to the world. But, as I’ve explained, it ain’t so.

2 Likes

Should be imminent, Tuesday the 9th November for unconditional trading. I did see one like this before that was actually up on Freetrade a day early so here’s hoping.

1 Like