I tend to err on the side of people being responsible for their own choices. If people want to give up smoking, then IMB will go out of business and that would just be the natural progression of things, if people want to smoke, IMB provides, same as fast food, energy drinks and all the other unhealthy parts of life. IMO all a company is responsible for is selling itâs product in an honest way (eg, not lying/covering things up). If they want to do more, awesome, more power to them, but I donât think they are obliged to.
Every time I buy a pack of tobacco, I have made the choice to do that, and not to give it up. No one is responsible for that other than me.
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Thanks for your response. Always great to talk these things through and hear different sides of the debate. I know that everyone must examine their own conscience and make decisions based on whatâs important to them, but personally I applaud your decision to deprioritise tobacco industry investment.
You raise an interesting point about the tobacco market dying out - in wealthier nations thatâs true, but in poorer societies less so. Thatâs why the tobacco industry has been investing so heavily in the cannabis sector (plus vaping as you mentioned earlier) to offset the decline in traditional cigarette / cigar / pipe tobacco sales.
Itâs funny that you mention the gambling sector - you wonât be surprised to know that I also wouldnât invest in this sector. I donât have an issue with social gambling where people can afford to lose the money they play with and gambling is âfunâ, but I think there are few, effective safeguards to stop people gambling more than they can afford to lose, and as I believe problem gambling is an addiction, I donât think itâs fair to expect a gambler to stop themselves before or once itâs become a problem. Then the personal, family and community ramifications of debt are a real issue and often affect more people (often the immediate family) than just the gambler themselves.
Good luck with your investing and I hope youâre successful.
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The world isnât perfect as you say, but I do believe we can make it better. Whatâs not to stop us basing our investment decision not only on profit but also on personal, societal, environment impact etc? Part of what the impact of COVID-19 is reminding us (I believe), along with the climate crisis, is that we canât continue to pursue growth for growthâs sake and encourage rampant consumption without considering the impact on those around us. We all have personal agency to be part of the solution as well as part of the problem. Just my personal opinion I know, but investing in companies who donât do enough to counter the negative impact they have, is a great place to start making a change. There are loads of stocks and etfâs that could be considered ethical, for example the Vanguard ESGV etf Product Details | Vanguard Advisors which screens companies for their ethical, social and governance criteria. They exclude âstocks of certain companies involved in adult entertainment, alcohol, tobacco, weapons, fossil fuels, gambling, and nuclear power.â Coming soon hopefully to freetrade! Vanguard ESG U.S. Stock ETF (ESGV) . The fund invests in many companies worth of consideration for individual stock investing like Microsoft / Apple / Visa.
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You make a great point but I would also urge you to consider the impact of marketing (and the huge amounts that companies spend on it) in guiding our âfree choiceâ. Broadly speaking, if marketing wasnât effective in driving behaviour (i.e. your decision to buy a pack of tobacco and smoke it), companies wouldnât invest heavily in it, and they wouldnât invest heavily if they didnât think it would encourage us to buy more of their product or service.
If you have the time hereâs a great overview of UK tobacco advertising from Ash
http://ash.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Tobacco-Advertising-and-Promotion-download.pdf Some useful insights include:
In a British television documentary made in 1988, Fritz Gahagan, a former marketing consultant for big tobacco, provided insight into the fundamental paradox faced by the industry: âThe problem is how do you sell death? How do you sell a poison that kills 350,000 people per year, a 1,000 people a day? You do it with the great open spaces ⌠the mountains, the open places, the lakes coming up to the shore. They do it with healthy young people. They do it with athletes. How could a whiff of a cigarette be of any harm in a situation like that? It couldnât be - thereâs too much fresh air, too much health - too much absolute exuding of youth and vitality - thatâs the way they do itâ The marketing of tobacco has been a key factor in driving the global tobacco epidemic: recruiting new, young smokers and positioning smoking not as something deadly but something aspirational. This successful strategy has facilitated the creation of a massive global tobacco market over the last century.
âŚandâŚ
There is a long-standing, well established relationship between tobacco advertising and consumption. A UK Government commission review of the evidence conducted as early as 1992 found that âThe balance of evidence supports the conclusion that advertising does have a positive impact on consumption.â The same review also found that in countries that had banned tobacco advertising the ban âwas followed by a fall in smoking on a scale which cannot reasonably be attributed to other factors." ⌠There is extensive evidence that children and young people are highly receptive to tobacco advertising and that young people exposed to tobacco advertising and promotion are more likely to take up smoking.
If you really want to go down the ethical route, you wouldnât go anywhere near Vanguard then as Vanguardâs executives in the US have been voting to prevent the directors of big oil companies such as Exxon, Dominion and Duke from facing accountability on climate: Vanguard refuses to sign up to climate crisis commitment | Climate crisis | The Guardian
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Sure, marketing works, but as adults we have to be responsible for our own actions. No marketing people are holding guns to peoples heads forcing them to smoke. I get fooled my marketing as much as anyone but thatâs on me to be smarter.
That said, I donât like any form of advertising aimed directly at children.
Very interesting! I hadnât seen that - thanks for sharing. Vanguardâs chief exec Tim Buckleyâs position seems to be that they believe in âengagingâ with companies rather than voting for action. âWe have to make sure weâre talking to companies on how they are dealing with and addressing these issues, but not crossing the line and telling them what to do.â I think thatâs not a strong enough position and hopefully itâs just a matter of time before they change their stance. As weâve said above, no-one / company / industry is perfect but some are better than others for sure.
After todays dividend reduction has anybody changed their feelings on this company? Having read through the recent reports, I have little confidence that this will ever go back up and is far more likley to keep going down.
IMB Next Generation Products strategy:
Through our expanding NGP portfolio we are providing adult smokers with a range of potentially less harmful alternatives to cigarettes.
We create value through two distinct business growth models, our Market Repeatable Model for tobacco and our Brand Adoption Model for NGP. Consistently applying these models to the right markets and the right brands is key for delivering quality growth. Our high operating margins drive the strong cash flows that are a hallmark of our business and although investment in NGP may initially dilute these margins we expect to see profitability improve over time.
https://www.imperialbrandsplc.com/about-us/our-strategy.html
âŚSound of brakes screechingâŚ
NGP revenue fell 43 per cent at constant currency reflecting a reduction in inventories in the supply chain, the impact of the US FDA announcement banning flavoured pods and category declines as health concerns with vaping products in the US and the contagion of these announcements on key European markets.
https://www.investegate.co.uk/imperial-brands-plc--imb-/rns/half-year-report/202005190700023186N/
as a result:
Right-sized our NGP investment
which is corporate lingo for âgiving up onâ NGP.
Tobacco it is thenâŚ
Tobacco volumes fell 0.5 per cent, against an overall market size decline of 4.3 per cent.
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Solid overview! This release confirmed my lack of confidence in the business long term
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Take on IMB from Freetrade
Sidebar:
I like the new look of the blog area but the font is a bit small and thereâs random paragraphs with blank lines in the content:
The progress bar at the bottom of the page of the post is a good touch. Can you tether it to the content area for the blog instead of the whole page?
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In this video I analyse Imperial Brands stock using fundamental analysis. Is IMB stock a buy?
I go through Imperial Brandsâ business summary, sales breakdown & financial statements to get an understanding of the business. After this, I go through my analysis checklist and then value Imperial Brands stock using the discounted free cashflow method.
Imperial Brands plc, is a British multinational tobacco company headquartered in Bristol, England. It is the worldâs fourth-largest international cigarette company measured by market share after Philip Morris International, British American Tobacco, and Japan Tobacco, and the worldâs largest producer of fine-cut tobacco and tobacco papers.
Imperial Brands produces over 320 billion cigarettes per year, has 51 factories worldwide, and its products are sold in over 160 countries. Its brands include Davidoff, West, Gauloises Blondes, Montecristo, Golden Virginia (the worldâs best-selling hand rolling tobacco), Drum (the worldâs second-largest-selling fine-cut tobacco), and Rizla (the worldâs best-selling rolling paper).
Please also remember to like and comment, if you enjoyed the video!
Subscribe to Lewis Harding Invest on YouTube.
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Brought this years ago. Getting something close to 10% dividend yield on my original investment. Itâs like 8% at current prices. Wanted to share it because UK equities get overlooked but they can be the green beacon of hope. Or in other words, the rest of my Portfolio is rather red.
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Good stuff. Iâm up 22% and thought I was doing well! Always good to see the big dividends too, especially the more weighted ones in December and March.
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