The mission is to get everybody.
It even says that as FTās slogan. The whole point is to get novices into stock. If you are only aimed at experienced investors then the custom is minimal.
Gonna echo many others and say that Iām not at all a fan of having stocks behind a paywall. On top of that, limit orders, etc are basic functionality and should be free imo; theyāre offered elsewhere for free after all. Ā£10pm is also steep imo; I think Ā£5pm is much more palatable, especially if youāre starting out small and accumulating from there.
Frankly, Plus just makes me want to switch to FTās competitor, who are way better value for money as it stands.
All that being said, I accept freetrade have to make money somehow, and to that end - I could tolerate a paywall for stocks that arenāt offered anywhere else (Iāve had this issue for US listed ETFs, Hong Kong stocks, Indian stocks, Swedish stocks, Swiss stocks, etc) - AIM stocks do not fall into this category.
I also think the following would work behind a paywall:
SIPP
LISA
After-hours & Pre-market trading
OTC markets
Auto investing
10 Likes
When are limit orders that come with FT Plus going to be available on Android?
Another quick one: I have just looked at the full pricing page here, and noticed that free live data is listed as a feature for both basic and Plus. I often see data delayed by 15 minutes, and think ālive dataā is a bit deceiving.
1 Like
Exactly, and charging for features that their competitors offer for free is not good business.
5 Likes
The mission is to get everyone investing. Not trading. There is a huge difference.
5 Likes
If you say that ISA is free on the plus version canāt you just make it Free for everyone else instead of us having to pay Ā£3 when it āFreeā on the new accountsā¦
Why would they do that? Plus account holders only get it free when paying 9.99 a month so affectively still pay Ā£3 a month and 6.99 a month for other features?
Do you think thereās a magic money tree in the freetrade office?
3 Likes
I do not see Trading212 as Freetadeās major long-term competitor because any regulation on the CFD market would kill its business model.
I see Stake as being much more of a competitor with Freetrade. In that sense the Freetrade premium account offering seems in line with Stake (IMO it is superior as it includes an ISA and, eventually, a SIPP).
This is Stakes pricing model with all prices in USD:
Freetrade already offer trading on unsettled funds which is superior to a large number of brokers globally.
15 Likes
How will you get everyone investing if you are reducing the stocks they can invest in?
Surely novices would go to other platforms which would provide more stocks. Many novices will do a quick google and pick shares they see or from companyās they like.
Reducing the amount of stock available to free users wonāt work. Everyone starts some where, I class myself as a novice and yet was trading daily. I also have a bigger portfolio than the majority of our users.
Going from your logic, you would of pushed me and my referenced customers away. Which from 3people alone is close to Ā£70k.
Put some trust in Freetrade. Wait and see what its like first
8 Likes
People keep repeating this mantra that 212 relies on CFDs but over the last few months t212 have said that the invest side of the business is now self sustaining. Iām sure CFDs are much more profitable but no one is forced to use them (they werenāt shoved down my throat when I tried t212).
Of course the proof will be in the pudding for both FT and others about how sustainable the various business models are.
2 Likes
Agree with this. Thereās a lot of anticipation and a lot of assuming comments based on a relatively small amount of information. Letās not forget this is an initial release available to a small amount of users to gather feedback and make improvements. There are so many ways a lot of these features can be implemented which leaves it entirely open to interpretation, and so much more that could be coming in the future.
Take paywalling stocks for example: Is this moving some currently available stocks behind it, some smaller/less requested/higher maintenance/riskier stocks, or entire markets? Iād have a different opinion of it based on any of those answers, so thereās no need for upset or discontent, and equally no need for elation either because we have to wait and see and be given more information/updates. I trust FT to do itās thing and get it right.
1 Like
Iām genuinely curious how its self sustaining - they donāt levy any charges, and I wouldnāt think enough people hold large cash amounts for them to gain sufficient interest. Only thing I can think of is the stock loaning, but are they really doing that on a sufficient enough level?
I also havenāt seen T212 make this claim, but I have to be honest I donāt visit their forum much compared to this one so will have easily missed a post.
6 Likes
Just spent some time over there, so the majority of money made is via Securities lending, and from anyone brave/foolhardy enough to wonder into CFDs.
Also, from their CEO: āIn the future, we will introduce additional features for the Invest and ISA accounts which will be paid. Just like any other company with a freemium model, we first have to build the free fundament of our service. But the goal is to make it sustainable.ā
Thatās a huge impact to the conversation here, as a lot of the negative impact perceived is why pay, I can go to T212 for free - for now
5 Likes
That doesnāt suggest they will remove any of the current free functionality. It seems to me like they will build further offerings that will be paid.
I donāt think it changes any of the current conversation unless FT introduce features not present in 212 for free.
1 Like
Iirc it was from stock lending (which they only introduced relatively recently) and interest.
If they start to charge for things in the future so be it - that may well change the balance between FTās offering and T212 but we can only work on the current situation.
To be fair to FT I donāt think we should ignore that FT is still going through a period of massive development when a lot of changes and improvements can be made (Iām not sure how much innovation is ongoing at t212).
I think youāve got a point.
FT and Stake both rely on DriveWealth. Stake allow free and fractional trading in ALL assets available via DriveWealth. If Freetrade bung a US stock behind a paywall people will just head to Stake.
Stake need to adapt their pricing model, for sure. When they do Iād reckon their UK/European business will see an uptick. If they ever allow in-specie transfers in of US stocks I reckon theyāll be making a play for more experienced (by that I pretty much mean āolderā) investors whoāve amassed US assets on other more expensive platforms and now want to move to a cheaper/free brokerage. Weāve seen on this forum that moving US assets from DTC to another broker is not entirely smooth nor possible in some cases. Iād like my US assets on a cheaper platformā¦ if Stake offered that service and made a play for āolderā investors Iād happily move over my US stocks. If they offered and ISA or SIPP, even better.
One to keep an eye on.
3 Likes
Thatās not what I was suggesting, Iām pointing out they are moving to the same freemium model as Freetrade - I make no claims as to what will be free, what will be chargeable (other than ISA) as no one outside of their business knows yet. But freemium only works when the best features are chargeable, otherwise why pay? so its a reasonable assumption that their best features will be charged for in some way.
Quite possibly, and kudos to them if they can be that innovative. I donāt think I was clear enough, the impact is that people are upset about the freemium approach, i.e. certain abilities and stocks behind a paywall, but even the company perceived by most to be the largest competition, with CFDs and stock loaning will be moving to freemium too. Iām not talking about certain features on either side, I am talking about the operating model and the direction the industry is taking.
Are you able to link to where T212 have made these claims?