Revolut Wealth

[dan]

@freetrade_cal

In order to mitigate this we’re looking at a European hub (Dublin, Amsterdam) to set up an independently regulated subsidiary such that we can ensure continued access across the single market.

I’m sure you’ve done a tremendous amount of research about the benefits of alternative EU hubs, but Luxembourg might be worth a second look. Their regulator is very easy to work with, welcoming to UK businesses and operating in English, and there is a fantastic network of local support from government and corporates.

[Vlad (Vladislav Kozub)]

@dan

Revolut is fundamentally a financial utility for frequent travellers

Interestingly, I have opened an account with Revolut on the same week as with Monzo. Then went to Russia for a week to conduct a tiny research (not purely for that reason of course). Went to a grocery shop on 2 different days buying same stuff one after another with two transactions (less than 1 minute difference) and paying with a Monzo and a Revolut card.

Monzo’s rate ended up being more beneficial once both transactions cleared. On that day I got rid of Revolut and sticked to Monzo because I did not see the benefit of Revolut.

[dan]

@Vlad

Monzo’s rate ended up being more beneficial once both transactions cleared. On that day I got rid of Revolut and sticked to Monzo because I did not see the benefit of Revolut.

Wary to derail this by getting too deep, but I guess talking about Revolut’s product is still relevant.

Revolut’s rate will almost always be better than Monzo’s Mastercard rate during the week, but they do add a % at the weekend which can make it more expensive. You can always exchange currency in advance and store it in their currency wallets, of course.

[Vlad (Vladislav Kozub)]

But going back to

@dan

Its [Revolut’s] audience are not implicitly financially or technically savvy

As an average customer, I might not want to think whether exchanging beforehand will be better or not, who knows? Also, It was not perfectly clear for me what currency you will spend with. If I had £ and $, how could I make sure the right currency is spend on a given transaction? I guess there was the way but I just wanted to have it dead simple. Which is why I sticked with Monzo, which is why I will stick with Freetrade for its simplicity.

[dan]

@Vlad

Which is why I sticked with Monzo, which is why I will stick with Freetrade for its simplicity.

I think here lies the difference. You are a discerning customer, as will be the vast majority of Freetrade’s users, I think. Revolut does not need, and does not really market to, discerning customers. Their product works well, and on the whole their rates are good. If you are typical Joe or Jane on the street and you try it, you are likely to be impressed.

Pretty soon (if not already) you’ll be able to buy a Revolut card at the checkout in a supermarket, next to chewing-gum and gift cards. That’s a fairly good way to describe the way it differs with Freetrade.

[Vlad (Vladislav Kozub)]

Just checked Revolut (redownloaded it just for that reason): I get 1145 EURO for £1000. And on MasterCard Interbank I get 1147 EURO for £1000. Which means that even on a working day, using major currencies, Monzo would outperform Revolut.

The only big advantage of Revolut when it comes to currencies is that you can use it for international transfers. Monzo does not yet support it and suggest TransferWise, which is more expensive than Revolut.

P.S. I had to Google what “discerning” is, but thanks

[dan]

@Vlad

Which means that even on a working day, using major currencies, Monzo would outperform Revolut.

In general, that shouldn’t be the case.

I think it’s fair to say the difference between Monzo’s rate and Revolut’s is pretty minimal. The key to Revolut’s offering there is the ability to hold a variety of currencies, so you can avoid exchange fees - which can be exorbitant at some international ATMs - and buy in at a favourable rate.

I don’t even really think Monzo and Revolut compete - and that’s a much more direct comparison than Revolut and Freetrade. Revolut is a utility product. Monzo is a bank account. Freetrade is a trading app. The latter two both serve (and aim to execute perfectly) a single primary purpose. Revolut can’t compete with them directly on those propositions.

[Vlad (Vladislav Kozub)]

So the questions is, if I have Monzo and Freetrade covering most of the Revolut’s functions, why consolidate? But I do get your point of the latter being a bigger utility overall, as well as available to a broader market (for now).

P.S. Do people still even use cash withdrawals in 2018? Nowadays I think that using contactless is caveman-style if you can have Apply/Google Pay instead…

[dan]

@Vlad

So the questions is, if I have Monzo and Freetrade covering most of the Revolut’s functions, why consolidate? But I do get your point of the latter being a bigger utility overall, as well as available to a broader market (for now).

The question with Monzo is: Do I want to switch from my old bank account to use Monzo primarily?

The question with Freetrade is: Do I want to switch from my old stock trading platform to Freetrade?

The question with Revolut is simply: Do the benefits of Revolut make it worth carrying around another card?

@Vlad

P.S. Do people still even use cash withdrawals in 2018? Nowadays I think that using contactless is caveman-style if you can have Apply/Google Pay instead…

Really depends where in the world you are. Even in some capital cities (Berlin is a prime example) you are still very likely to need cash.

[Dashriprock (Garry)]

I have to admit to using cash withdrawals but I do have a Monzo card as well.

I am happy to be known as a caveman or a grumpy old caveman as my wife tells me often.

[Vlad (Vladislav Kozub)]

She is a wise lady for sure since we have the same vector of thinking

[Diversify (Radical Candor)]

@Diversify

If @adam is viewing Revolut as a major competitor in Europe, now that we are investors of FreeTrade, should we also be mindful of the potential juggernaut that is Revolut - Europe’s fastest fintech Unicorn?

@dan @tommy
I just don’t understand how if the Cofounder of Freetrade is quoted in an article explicitly saying Revolut (and other EU fintechs) is a competitor, how we as would be investors can discount what he’s saying by arguing that they aren’t. Am I missing something?

[Diversify (Radical Candor)]

@Vlad

I get 1145 EURO for £1000. And on MasterCard Interbank I get 1147 EURO for £1000.

The spot rate fluctuates in real time. Did you make a true like for like comparison? Screenshots would be helpful.

[dan]

@Diversify

I just don’t understand how if the Cofounder of Freetrade is quoted in an article explicitly saying Revolut (and other EU fintechs) is a competitor, how we as would be investors can discount what he’s saying by arguing that they aren’t. Am I missing something?

If he was genuinely concerned about competition from them he probably wouldn’t advertise that fact (and them) in Forbes.

I’ll go out on a limb and say I believe he was just using Revolut as an example of a Fintech company that really understands the whole European market, in contrast to Robinhood.

[Vlad (Vladislav Kozub)]

First is MasterCard and second is Revolut. Right now.

This is actually a 0.21% difference. Almost a half of Freetrade’s FX charge. Quite a sum if you deal with big numbers.

[Diversify (Radical Candor)]

To me, it’s not about being concerned per se, but just about recognition about who is a competitor to keep an eye on and who is not. Clearly they’re disrupting different sectors so it’s not a big concern, however customers will overlap for instance which is a variable one must account for.

[Diversify (Radical Candor)]

That comes as a surprise to me Currently reevaluating life

[Vlad (Vladislav Kozub)]

Do you want a Monzo referral link to embrace their exchange rate?

[Diversify (Radical Candor)]

Monzo is my main spending account. I have it already I just use both as compliments for different things.