How easy is it going to be to sell B shares
Continuing the discussion from What we know about the next crowdfunding round so far (FAQs) (Open Wiki) :
Based on the above - Iām thinking not too difficult.
The Crowdcube own warning though states that it is likely to be difficult. And what platforms are available to sell as I assume wonāt be through LSE. This may seem daft question but Iām new to B shares
In theory you can sell them based on the other comments but in reality itās unlikely.
Crowdcube had planned on adding a secondary market, but have pushed those plans back or maybe even ditched them as Iāve not heard anything recently on this.
Seedrs on the other hand have a secondary market but that doesnāt mean youāll be able to find a buyer.
Liquidity is a issue in crowd investing.
Not daft at all
Iām reading up too - thought Iād share what I know.
The Monzo forum has examples of people selling (transferring) through CC, just depends on the demand I guess
Theyāre very easy to transfer, very difficult to sell.
That is to say that if you have a willing buyer at a price you are happy with then great. Weāll process the transfer. Finding yourself a buyer is the challenge. Applicable tax on any sale also applies.
For future reference and to emphasise CCās response: the company itself has to be involved in the transfer. If they / we arenāt aware itās taken place and updated the relevant records accordingly it effectively hasnāt taken place (in law).
Revolut originally raised on Crowdcube and then transferred over to Seedrs where the shares sell nearly instantly on the secondary market. People looking to buy are complaining in the Seedrs forums about it being too fast and so they canāt buy them! Freetrade might decide to change over to Seedrs in future which would mean you could sell earlier (but Iām sure thatās a complicated decision)ā¦
Thatās a great feature. Hopefully in the future Crowdcube will set up a secondary market for shares also.
I did a quick google and Crowdcube had their first secondary share sale on the platform Looks fairly different to Seedrs as the sale was to business angles.
Notice that most investors chose not to sell, even to realise a 9x return! Investing in a start up should be considered a long term investment, but regardless this looks promising if you do have a need to sellā¦
Excellent article find
Absolutely this goes without saying.
However, I think while traditional Angel Investors, Seed Investors, Venture Capitalists and Private Equity have no real prospect of experiencing a life changing liquidity shock, a single human Crowdfunder certainly could so any progress in curating some form of secondary market on Crowdfunding platforms is something we all probably see as a good thing for the layman investors.
Not only this, but itāll probably have the effect of increasing the pool of willing Crowdfunders if they have peace of mind that IPO or big buyout isnāt their only realisable exit option.
I hear you but you shouldnāt be investing money you could possibly need in a crowdfunded startup. Personally Iād treat any investment through crowdfunding as money gone.
Perhaps you could undertake more analysis on the companies you invest into? Surely Crowdcube is high risk and extreme reward, and many startups to indeed approach an already competitive market. But rarely you see incredible people with great potential, filling the niche market with their product that is different and appealing to the customers.
Of course, whilst you never know who that is, the best you can do is following their news and updates for months/years and looking at the figures. And that will help you to make more informed decisions and deviate from your statement about money invested in Crowdcube is lost.
Proper due diligence is really complicated in crowd investing, a lot of companies are precious about sharing details. Just have a look at some of the discussions on existing pitches on Crowdcube and Seedrs. And obviously thereās a lot out of the founders control in heavily regulated businesses like Freetradeā¦thatās why thinking about the money gone is the best way to avoid going overboard when investing.
For sure, but there are unknown unknowns - say a Black Swan event - that may shock someoneās personal life in the future that one never reasonably even thought to account for e.g. premature funeral costs of a loved one, bankruptcy, unexpected legal costs, you name it.
Personally, I wouldnāt say itās money gone because Iād have some expection of the ROI>0 otherwise I wouldnāt invest in the first place.
More only investing money one can āaffordā to lose.
Haha thanks for the patronising reply.
I am extremely happy with the results of my investing career thanks and could have retired in my 30s if Iād chosen to do so.
Professional VCs expect maybe 1 in 10 of their investments to come good. Thatās with teams of experienced analysts poring over the books and getting to know the teams. Personally Iāve done the due diligence on company purchases from $20m to over $500m, and guided series A investment totalling maybe a hundred m into a few startups.
Series A and B investing is incredibly risky, with potentially high rewards. Putting up money you canāt afford to lose is positively stupid.
Iāve had FTSE100 companies do this!
Iām in agreement with everything you said.
However, my point was, while being prepared to lose all capital is a factor, in expectation this is not the case (simple probability using linear expectation operators). Our due diligence should determine that investing in FreeTrade is a positive NPV project otherwise we shouldnāt be investing at all.
Also, Iām not a risk-neutral investor but a risk-averse investor. Therefore, liquidity is of value to me. This is not to say that I need the liquidity, but that all things being equal I prefer a the scenario of crowdfunding with the option of secondary liquidity over the scenario of crowdfunding without the option of secondary liquidity.
Serious money would be relative, but I agree given my username is āDiversifyā after all Shouldnāt put all our eggs in one basket!
Would just like to echo what you guys are saying. In the olden days of the dot .com I invested in a few early stage companies , some did well and a couple went bust. Back then I hasnāt grasped the principle of spreading risk and over invested. When a couple of companies went bust I lost a considerable amount of capital. Took me 10 years to recover from that loss. So my advice is spread the risk and only invest what you can afford to loose.
Lots of good advice - diversification is key whether itās crowdfunding or in the stock market, a multi asset portfolio achieves this (and can be achieved solely through ETFās).
I take great comfort when the shares are EIS eligible, if youāre a UK tax payer youāll get tax relief for 30%, and loss relief at your marginal rate of tax (i.e. 20% or 40% for most people). That limits the total loss to a max 42%-56% (best to check before considering investing).
Itās all part of the learning experience!! Itāll make you a better investor!