MEGATHREAD: Freetrade SIPP

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Iā€™ve asked the team about the 15% withholding to be sure, but I think itā€™s down to the administrator we use . I wasnā€™t aware of it before reading this thread, thanks for bringing up.

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I was one of the ones that really waited for FreeTrade to launch their SIPP option. Once live earlier this year, I done all my dd , compared fees, make calculations, etc and indeed - Freetradeā€™s SIPP is by far the best available option for SIPPs in UK. Just before joining I took the time and read carefully through all the T&C and what stopped me from joining was the fact that: ā€œYOU CANNOT DRAW BENEFITS FROM THE FREETRADE SIPP AND WILL HAVE TO TRANSFER TO ANOTHER PENSION PLAN TO DO THISā€.
As mentioned before, I found that quite discouraging even if I know little facts about how this would happen. In my mind, transferring to another plan close to retirement age just to draw the benefits might be costly or impossible as I donā€™t see why other company would happily accept your pension funds just for you to draw the benefits, after you havenā€™t paid f/ all in charges to them over the years. Again, this is just my own thinking and I have not explored what the situation is in reality. This is the reason why I am here now)

  1. Does anyone have knowledge of how this would work out? What type of charges would one incur when wanting to transfer to another plan close to retirement age just to be able to draw the benefits?
  2. For the ones that have already joined or transferred their pensions to Freetrade SIPP - what is your plan for when the moment comes to draw the benefits and you will not be able to do it directly from Freetrade?
  3. Does anyone know for sure if other pension providers will accept the transfer from Freetrade just to draw the benefits?
    Any comments, thoughts or suggestions on this topic would be really appreciated ( even from Freetrade moderators if there are any ).
    Cheers,
    Alex
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Just started a transfer from a Fidelity Workplace pension
Was this a SIPP ā†’ SIPP transfer? Quite a wait you had!

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Iā€™d be interested to know about this as well

What he means is that currently Freetrade do not offer a SIPP drawdown service, so if you want to take money out of your SIPP (if you are aged 55 and over), you will need to transfer it to another SIPP provider.

This was exactly the same as Vanguard when they first started up their SIPP - they too had no drawdown service available at first, but now they do and I suspect Freetrade will offer a drawdown facility too in time.

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Gaudi which FT uses as the SIPP provider also have a drawdown product so itā€™s probably in the pipeline to be designed and coded into the FT app

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Hi Adam, just wondering has there been any further movement on this within the team? In regards to getting the withholding tax removed in a Sipp?

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On the transfer from other providers pointā€¦ Iā€™m very impressed with how quickly FT work. Transfer from PRU took just over a week. Transfer from AON took about 6 weeks (I canā€™t remember exactly) but that was purely because my last employer dragged their feet letting AON know Iā€™d left.

Edit: Now Iā€™ve reread your post, I see thatā€™s not exactly what youā€™re asking Alex, but hope itā€™s useful info for some anyway :smile:

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I just created a feature request for this if you want to vote up/watch. I assume one already exists but no harm in pushing as really this is a tax that we donā€™t need to be paying, and seems to have been overlooked based on Adamā€™s comments and support chats.

I can see looking at just a few of my dividend emails Iā€™ve paid over $100 in this tax. If freetrade can prioritise a feature that saves itā€™s users a lot of money collectively. Plus from an investor lens - get more SIPPs transferred from competitors :slight_smile:

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The more I read the more it sounds crazy not to have this option as it is a good/bad selling point depending on wether you offer it or not. Maybe there are some reasons it isnā€™t done but on the face of it this is a big win for SIPP customers and better than paying tax in another country. :stuck_out_tongue:

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From the HL FAQs:

A W-8BEN form means we can claim a US tax reduction for you on your dividends and interest from US shares. Withholding tax rates can be reduced from 30% to 15%, or to 0% if your shares are held in a SIPP.

AJ Bell have a similar explanation.

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You say this and others say the opposite, do you know this or believe? Just curious as I donā€™t know and trying to work out facts from opinions. :+1:

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Its just the AJ Bell site says

You donā€™t need to complete either form if you hold your investments in an AJ Bell Youinvest SIPP. This is because when in a SIPP, US investments are automatically exempt from withholding tax

And as mentioned above the Hargreeves site says

WHAT IS A W-8BEN?

A W-8BEN form means we can claim a US tax reduction for you on your dividends and interest from US shares. Withholding tax rates can be reduced from 30% to 15%, or to 0% if your shares are held in a SIPP.

Are you sure as it is also mentioned in here

Buying US stocks using a UK ISA or SIPP (whatinvestment.co.uk)

The cost of doing so is usually higher than when buying UK-listed stocks. As well as standard dealing charges and management fees that can vary by provider, there are also usually foreign exchange fees. They are charged for exchanging sterling into dollars when purchasing US-listed stocks, and vice versa when selling them.

Although some sharedealing providers offer US dollar-denominated accounts that could reduce foreign exchange fees for investors who are likely to trade US-listed shares regularly, ISA balances can only be held in sterling. Therefore, US-dollar denominated accounts may lack tax advantages.

In order to reduce the amount of tax paid on dividends received from US-listed shares, a W-8BEN (US tax) form should be completed and submitted to a share dealing provider prior to purchases being made. This reduces US-levied withholding tax from 30% to 15% (or even to 0% in the case of a SIPP). The form is fairly short and worth completing for the tax benefits that it may offer.

Also found this

These days itā€™s easy for stock market investors to buy shares in overseas companies, amongst the most popular being US companies.

Foreign dividends are often subject to withholding tax - the overseas company will deduct tax before paying you the dividend. However, the UK has double tax treaties with many countries that reduce the amount of foreign tax payable (usually to 10% or 15%). In the US the dividend withholding tax rate is normally 30%.

However, in terms of the double tax agreement between the US and UK, the amount of withholding tax can be reduced to 15% by completing form W-8BEN, issued by the US Internal Revenue Service (IRS). Most online stockbrokers will handle these forms on your behalf so the process is relatively simple.

The double tax agreement also provides a specific exemption for pension schemes, which means US dividends can be received tax free if the shares are held inside your SIPP or another pension scheme. The double tax agreement does not, however, recognise ISAs. ISA investors are still subject to withholding tax.

If your overseas shares are held outside an ISA or SIPP you may have to pay UK income tax on your overseas dividends if you have used up all your 0% dividend rate tax band. However, you may be able to claim Foreign Tax Credit Relief when you submit your tax return. This allows the overseas tax paid to be deducted from the amount of UK tax owing. Bear in mind though that the amount deducted cannot exceed the UK tax payable on that income.

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Sorry my mistake. It is not reduced to zero in a ISA but it is in a SIPP. I forgot that I had no US dividend paying stocks in my SIPP. The point is ISA and SIPP treatment is different which H&L have confirmed to me just now.

So the bottom line is: 0 % in SIPP, 15% in ISA.

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:rofl: :rofl: No worries :+1: I had never heard it myself so was confused and just had to dig deeper :stuck_out_tongue: Sounds like a good option for the SIPP though and FT really should try and get this benefit ASAP.

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As far as I can see the only point under discussion was whether US dividends were taxed at 0% in a SIPP. Nothing to do with ISA differences.

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@Big-g Yes you are right.

BTW, the reasons confused me too until the penny dropped. The ISA is a local tax saving structure and the SIPP is a pension. The difference is significant because the latter is often specifically recognised in a dual tax treaty whereas the former mostly arenā€™t.

BTW, none of this means that the brokers donā€™t withhold taxes from other jurisdictions - so I have no idea what happens to e.g. German or French dividends etc etc.

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You have missed the now deleted comments that referred to SIPP only :+1: No-one is disputing the ISA issue but the original comments were all saying this was not possible in SIPP and that alone was the dispute. This is the problem reading messages after some have been deleted as I often find when a certain person gets banned and context then goes out the window and it looks like people are replying to other people. :rofl:

To be fair it was acknowledged and then deleted so no biggie but Jim was replying about a bigger convo that is now not on the thread. :+1:

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I think you missed the whole thread with the now deleted comments.

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Sorry but you really have lost the whole context of the previous conversation. The discussion was ONLY about SIPP and the reactions were only about that 1 topic. As I said the ISA thing is true and good to know but Jim was not talking about that. :+1:

Jim 100% correctly pointed out that the discussion was about SIPP tax and not ISA differences as we were not disputing that in any way at all. It may be handy for people to know but the whole ISA issue was totally irrelevant to the conversation. Jim wasnā€™t being rude just making it clear it wasnā€™t in dispute.

The whole point was that @mqInAugrim came up with a really good post and idea thread and both got told they were wrong when they were correct and as mentioned corrected so the thread now looks very distorted but Jim was very fair in his comment.