I also have to disagree, share trading may be a risky business, but I would argue investing is not akin to gambling.
If you frame decisions within the context of âwhat is the risk to me not achieving my financial goals?â then for most people not investing in equity is probably the much bigger risk - although thereâs a distinction between that actively trading stocks.
When I scraped the weekly top buys from twitter last year the performance was not great, somewhat anecdotally from the forums as well the Freetrade baggers projects and the most discussed stocks have also generally been poor performers so I think this is up for debate.
Anyway to the subject of the thread my wife is a much better investor than me, she calmly invests weekly in low cost DM/EM ETFs, doesnât mess around speculating or overcomplicating it and always seems fairly happy when thereâs a downturn as it means a discount that week. This is about as far away from gambling as it gets and the chances of her losing money over a time period of a decade or more are very low.
For some reason people feel very defensive about the term âgamblingâ. But this is really what a lot of people are doing. I get why people donât like the term being used. I guess itâs all the negative connotations. The loose morals that are associated with gambling. As someone who studied Markov processes and stochastic theory I am very happy to use the term gambling.
The fine line perhaps comes in the time horizon - there are articles out there that insist Investing is all about the long term and gambling is all about the short term, One definition that I came across is that Gamblers donât make use of additional information but investors do. which is a kind of funny definition if you think about how Casinos ban âcard readersâ. All of which are funny from the view of probability theory.
Ok. I am talking about the Freetrade ETFâs and passive investing here (VWRL, and so on so forth). But I am sure you can show that all the best selling ETFs are not great OK - I agree. A lot of ETFâs are lousy especially the thematic ones. After all they are gambling concentrated stock picks.
the subject of the thread is âwomen Investors - How many are there here on Freetradeâ . I think that only Freetrade can answer that.
Fair point. But you know well what I am talking about. and that is about all those threads come on "âoh itâs all redâ âoh it will this go up this weekâ âoh this will defo go upâ âwhat are you buying on the dipâ, the mining penny stocks. The vast majority of the discussion is 0 to do with the fundamentals of the business and any macroeconomics that may affect it.
Slightly off-topic. Yes you can lose 100% of your capital but your upside is almost unlimited. Thatâs why stocks and shares long-term outperform any other asset, not sure the causality here is rock solid but thatâs pretty much my view.
@weenie I do not disagree with anything that you are saying. In fact I agree with it all.
My point is that some ⊠no many ⊠of the people on these forums are gambling and they admit they are gambling. I like their honesty. Just the way you throw your money at Betfair they throw their money at Share Z.
Yes. I agree with you.
As the FCA wants everyone to appreciate âCapital at Riskâ. People must understand that. Holding a dud long term doesnât result in value appreciation.
The thing is, if investment were A Bad Thing, the rich wouldnât be doing it ⊠and they do, always, all the time.
So do the rest of us all the time if we buy a house, pay into a pension, etc. We tend to recognise the risks there and buy life assurance or endowments or home insurance when weâre also investing indirectly (it has been said that insurance companies are investment companies selling insurance as a sideline).
The key is knowing what to invest in, when, where and how to control the risks. There are risks, obviously, but they can be controlled and minimised - the rich know that - and itâs not a short term game.
Itâs a form of saving but not for a holiday, a car or even a house deposit in the near horizon. Itâs saving for a far horizon.
Why buy an expensive handbag when you can buy a bit of the company that makes them?
I agree with you. I havenât and am not arguing or suggesting that Investment is a bad thing. That would be hypocrisy and totally disingenuous on my part ⊠after all I have been putting money into shares since my teen years. And my resulting portfolio is neither small nor is it anywhere near in the red.
I obviously support everyone investing and I think every citizen should be involved. Why? we are a share owning democracy! And all those companies are essential to our wealth. NaĂŻve, perhaps, but I think all of us should understand how these companies work. By buying shares and working out what information we need to mitigate risks and underline rewards should help us understand how money moves in our democracy. I accept that we donât all have the time to understand basic finance and so some of us should leave much of the heavy lifting to low cost funds.
It is essential that women own shares and are part of all the âwealth creationâ mechanisms that exist - and I think this is fundamental to a democratic and just society.
None of what I say above contradicts the point I make several times above about gambling. What is gambling? It is making/taking a wager that some uncertain outcome comes up trumps. You evaluate the risk that the trumps comes up and you then decide how much you wager. What is investing? To me (financial) investing is putting money into a venture such as Freetrade in the hope that it turns up trumps. There is a risk involved. I have to decide whether I want take that risk - look at Crowdcube investments: very few of them turn out OK i.e. the risks are high. I better do my homework - and acknowledge things may not turn out the way that I want them too.
Itâs odd. My mum always invested in funds and stocks, did FX trading, and I was brought up exposed to this, and the importance of geopolitical events. The language used in investing articles doesnât come over as off putting. A friend of mine does the same as me, and she reads more indepth than I do.
Perhaps thatâs the key difference, that you were exposed to it an early age (as I was, as both my parents invested), so you are aware of the benefits of investing and what it can do for you, and the language doesnât put you off.
I forwarded the link to that free ebook to my friends and sadly, Iâm not sure any of them will download it but at least itâs there if they change their mind!
Not everyone has this exposure. None of my close friends all who are well educated and successful women, invest. I am the only one and only down to my own personal interest. Granted I have very limited knowledge and I am trying to learn as I go. A lot of the information I read especially surrounding business and business finance goes over my head. Not because Iâm stupid but because my higher education, career and upbringing gave me nearly zero exposure to this field. Had I been brought up in a household who invested or wanted a career in this field I would have a very different perspective. However, this shouldnât stop women who find the information daunting from investing but it does.Through personal conversations with women in my life this is the main factor. Having information that is relatable or a person who is relatable, can be a great comfort to people especially women in an environment where they feel uncomfortable.
@Plumplum1 everything you have said is also applicable to men.
The stats tell us that Share ownership in the UK population as a whole is quite low which ever way you look at it. It is a cultural issue.
Yes women should seek/obtain information from anywhere they feel most comfortable. Iâm sure @soko does not imply otherwise .
Only Freetrade can tell us what percentage of their client accounts are female. I think it is higher than some of the messages on this thread may lead one to conclude.
My mum told me she would have followed a very different career path had she been taught this when she was young (in the 1950s). Even without this she was interested and leant.
Can exposure in school and from peers help?
Itâs like getting women into STEMs. ( Ancedotally, 20% of women made up our computer science degree in the early 90s, which increased after many 1st students dropped out because most were guys thus the ratio of women to men improved a little).
Most men I know do not invest. They go to work and have a company pension. They have some funds that they send in monthly deposits. Some do invest, and the ones I know who do so very actively, but they are a minority, but I donât know any women who invest at all (bar my mum ) They donât have time.
No I completely agree itâs applicable to men, thatâs not what Iâm saying. But from a female perspective, from experiences and conversations with women. This is what I personally have found. Iâm generalising because I donât know statistics. Iâm just going off my own experiences. I equally have had conversations with men in my life about investing, and the two men I can think of who invest off the top of my head one works for the London Stock Exchange and the second is an Account Manager for one of NZ biggest banks. But I also have a lot of men who work in business who donât invest probably for the same reasons as women. It definitely itâs not solely a gender issue. Iâm just looking at it from my own experiences and how I as a female feel encouraged and included. Definitely not to suggest everyone or any women feel the same as I do.
I also donât think soko meant otherwise that wasnât what I was insinuating.
It definitely would be interesting to see the statistics from Freetrade on gender and age!!
I definitely think investing should be at least discussed in schools. As should personal financing and business there is to much focus on academics rather than a balance of life skills and personal management.
My partner recently left a government department which intakes STEM students so I have just asked him what their statistic were for female applicants - I can let you know the answer if he can remember to see if there is a change in this.
I think itâs definitely an interesting topic looking at gender differences but wether there will ever be a core reason for it I am unsure.
The same as you most men in my life do not invest, just happens that the ones I do know, work in finance. So I donât know if that is a coincidence or purely down to their careers. Weâll never know.
) They donât have time.