Rejected trades - On multiple occasions

So, I’m watching a general meeting, where there’s some really good news.

And I’m left unable buy, despite lots of other people being able to buy on Hargreaves Lansdowne.

As usual with FT, the share price is decades out of date.

So, I’m wondering…

Have FT implemented something where they don’t allow trades when the current ask price is way different to the price shown in the app?

This is one of many times where I’ve had trades rejected when price is going up - given that HL users are able to buy, I’m not sure it’s the Market Makers doing the rejecting.

What stock is it?

If it’s a stock with low volume and not many people are looking to buy right now, then sell orders can get rejected.

Try buying in smaller chunks or setting a limit buy where you know the real bid price is. I think it is that difference to the app price as it happens with high volatility, takes a few tries.

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I use several brokers, if it’s £ stonks its definitely not Drivewealth. otherwise, its Driverwealth so other apps that use that platform should have the same experience.

It was a buy order… and the price went up by almost 20% over a 5 min period.

Lots of people on HL having success with their buys, but the opposite of success for me.

I tried reducing my order size etc. but no luck - and I tried about 10 times.

I’m wondering if FT have put something in place where if the price shown in the app differs hugely from the current ask/likely trade price, the order is rejected.

I’m now recalling someone theorising something like this in another thread… would be interested in hearing from FT re this.

Hard to say without knowing what you’re trying to buy.

Have you read the execution policy?

Also worth checking what kind of price your friends actually got, if it was a reasonable price of expensive.

I don’t believe they do this. Correlation does not equal causation.

Everything Freetrade said here probably still holds true:

https://blog.freetrade.io/why-orders-are-rejected-in-volatile-markets-3696484fe71d

In particular, “When prices are moving rapidly, particularly in one direction, market makers may find it difficult to provide quotes because of the risk they incur losses by being left with a position to fill, even though the market price is moving against them.”

I had trouble buying Shell at one point last year for precisely this reason, and I could see the large changes in price every time pricing data updated in the app. When I finally did get a successful order through, the price was significantly lower again than it had been show when I placed the order.

tl;dr, market volatility creates difficult trading situations at times, not Freetrade playing about with secret measures. I mean, why would they say “You may also find that the execution price you receive varies more than normal than what you saw on the stock screen, as a result of prices moving very quickly.” if they had a feature that blocked orders when the prices move quickly? :man_shrugging:

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Probably because they don’t show real time share prices.

And this statement doesn’t necessarily preclude them from preventing trades that would be executed at a price far different to the one shown in the app.

Given the number of complaints from people trying to buy a stock and having to pay far more than the price shown that used to be on these forums. And now that these seem to have dwindled and, to a degree, been replaced by complaints about rejected trades, I’d say this is a reasonable theory.

I agree correlation doesn’t equal causation, but correlation often provides a basis for investigating causation - hence this post.

And how do you know it’s for “precisely this reason”?

Orders aren’t executed based on the indicative price, it has nothing to do with the price they get from the market. You really should read the execution policy, it explains how orders are done.

There are almost none. Where people have complained about getting the ‘wrong’ price, they actually for the right price but had a poor understanding or the market, what they were ordering and the state of the stock at the time of the order.

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Maybe this should be made clearer somewhere, why blame the users who literally throw money at the company

People never read the terms and conditions or other documents even when it involves their money. This is even more obvious at other brokers where its just assumed they have certain protections. you agree to these terms when you sign up, its your job to read them before continuing. In Freetrades case the terms are pretty easy to read through.

I don’t know how we get people to read them more :smiley: I always bring it up on the forum :joy:

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FT has also written long time ago a nice piece which explains more in depth the trading process. Must hold true today as well (correct me if it is not the case anymore)

https://blog.freetrade.io/dealing-with-order-rejection-1f308e2fe12f

There is also a recently updated help page.

Might be useful for newcomers.

The suggestion to show more explicitly the reason for a rejected order in the app seems nice to have if technically feasible.

@Eden love your determination in pushing people to read the T&C

Why not have this as a small popup in the app with a link to that blog post, how many users go to the official blog ? Most of our apps on smartphones have gamified everythin and Im already addicted to Clubhouse after a few hours of use. Thi sis serious money

So I had a look at the blogs and Ts&Cs, which basically refer to;

  • the spread
  • Counterparty risk

But neither of these explain why my friends orders were executed using HL, but mine weren’t using FT. The above apply to HL just as much as they apply to FT.

Yes, they paid pretty much the full ask price, but that’s to be expected given a significant upwards movement - but there were obviously sellers as their orders went through.

No one has access to your friends trades or your trades to compare so Its impossible to narrow it down without more information. What stock? what time? what volume? on Freetrade and then the same questions of your friends trades including what price they were offered and accepted.

As I said in my first post:

  • the stock was volatile, I could see for myself that the price was changing dramatically.
  • when I did make a successful order, the settled price was dramatically different from the price I’d been quoted.

A simple application of Occam’s razor does the rest.

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