The battle will probably take 2 episodes. And we still need to see Bronn appear ( how will he avoid the whites?) and the golden company need to do something. The last 2 episodes are 90 minutes each so it’s safe to assume there will be some survivors from Winterfell. Will Sam kill Danny? Will Danny kill Jon? She was only concerned about his claim to the throne. Although not much happened I really enjoyed the episode
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I think Danny will die because of the scenes echoing Ygritte and the prophesy she will be betrayed one for gold (Jorah), one for blood (Mirri Maz Duur), and one for love (Jon?). I wonder if the scenes with Sansa will make her realise she need to sacrifice herself for Jon. Jon is the heart of the story of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryan) so killing him would be for the end of the season not here. Bronn is interesting. I can’t see him killing Tyrion or Jamie. I can’t predict where that one is heading. I enjoyed it but did it need 2 episodes to get to where we are now.
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“but did it need 2 episodes to get to where we are now”
Yep!
First episode does the job of getting everyone to the same place, touches base with the non-Winterfell strand, and starts off the reunions.
Second episode, now everyone is in the same place, finishes off the reunions and lays all the groundwork and preparation for the battle of Winterfell.
A lot of this is excellent character work. It may not be strictly necessary, but it’s the last time we’re going to get to spend any time with probably a lot of these characters! It’s nice to have, and adds depth.
And given that already this is only a six episode season, I find it funny that anyone could advocate for it being shorter 
Indeed, so far the pacing has been exactly what I expected ever since I knew this would be a six episode season:
1. Meetings
2. Preparation
3. Battle for Winterfell
(From this point, part varies on the outcome I cannot predict)
4. Retreat from Winterfell/March on Kings Landing
5. Battle for the Iron Throne
6. All the endings
The biggest question is Dany now. In episode one she comes across as an entitled b*tch (see: the whole Tarly conversation), Jon learns he has a greater claim to the throne than she, Sansa makes it clear she doesn’t intend to give up the north, and now Dany herself knows of Jon’s claim (bonus points for going all Cinemasins on it, but).
Bronn I don’t think will kill anyone. Probably by the time he gets there, one brother will be dead already, and the other will recognise his crossbow. “My sister sent you to kill me, yes?” “Yes” “How much is she paying you?” “Lots” “I’ll give you lotsX2 in order to not kill me, and another lots to help me kill her instead.” “Well I can’t say no to more money, it’s a deal!”
It might be just me, but after I finished watching episode 2 I went back and watched the evacuation from Hardhome again. Still one of the most brutal and breathtaking events in the show (though I had forgotten how incredibly crappy Karsi’s death scene was), and I feel a fitting foretaste for what will be to come at Winterfell.
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Apparently, episode 3 has been leaked?
Wow!
I expected more death of the main characters but Lyanna’s was great. Arya, my god.
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Gah! I tried to book annual leave for today so I could stay up and watch it but they wouldn’t let me. Can’t wait to get back from work and watch it
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It’s a not a good idea watching it at 6am. I’m about to 
That was just…wow. When it goes slow mo and the slow piano music starts then it’s never good. What next tho? There’s about 6 people left to defeat Cersei
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And the night king makes the classic Bond villain mistake of stopping to gloat at the moment of victory 
I was wrong about the white walker guise but…
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Pretty sure that now guarantees she’ll die next week though. Coz Game Of Thrones 
I am just about to watch the latest episode and have no idea what has been written above! Wish me luck, I’m going in! 
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I always stay away from this thread until I’ve watched the episode 
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Just watched it and although I am a massive fan, I found it largely disappointing.
First, some basic stuff - too often it was just too dark. Difficult to see what was going on and who was who, thereby making it difficult to connect with characters when they were fighting.
I am certainly no general, but seriously …? Sending in your whole cavalry into the dark alone, thereby splitting up your whole army? Having your trebuchets and catapults stationed before your infantry? No meaningful archery to speak of? Using palisades all wrong and until the last moment? And where were the dragons half the time and, even more so, what were Jon Snow and Bran Stark faffing about all the time?
Some really good pieces, an intriguing enough ending, but for me it didn’t live up to the hype. I found the Lord of the Rings battles, especially the one at Helmsdeep, much more engaging and exciting.
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I think the darkness was intentional. In the first few series it was all light and colourful. By last series it was darker and this is darker still. The way it’s shot reflects the general mood. But watching it now that it’s dark outside is a lot easier. Bran was there as bait to lure in the night king, the dragons were lost in the snow storm and Jon was trying not to be burnt. Creeping around in the crypt while holding a flaming sword that can be seen for miles? Not sure that was well thought out
I agree there was some seriously bad tactics there, use the trebuchets first you idiots!
and a bit disappointed after all this “Winter is Coming” for 7 Seasons then the Night King turns out to be even stupider than Jon Snow
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Don’t worry, I’m sure Cersi will be just as easily fooled as the White King. Rookie move White King!
A pretty bland episode all things said and done though!
I actually rewatched the episode and turned up my exposure, whites, highlights and shadows, and it looks much better.
The episode wasn’t an episode to show Alexander the Great levels of military genius and tactics. The military planning was god awful.
You usually use a cavalry to flank an enemy or to overwhelm infantry when you have the numbers. The dragons should have been used at the start to protect the troops and mop up the swarm before it attacked. Grey Worm was at the front then seemingly abandoned most of the Unsullied to die. Why didn’t the parapets have dragon glass on the lower parts where the wights would hold onto. Why didn’t a 13 year old leader not have better bodyguards? Sam just lay on the ground in the final piano scenes and somehow survived? Milisandre just smoozing up at the start of the episode as a Mary Sue, being critical to defend and remind Arya of her destiny, and then walk away and die? Why wasn’t she introduced in the last 2 hours of character talking. It has many holes in it militarily and scriptwise.
That being said however, this episode wasn’t about military tactics. It was about the panic and pointlessness of the defence of Winterfell against overwhelming odds. The dragon fire failing to kill the Night King. The Night King showing, yes you killed loads but look, more overwhelming wights are here from your dead men. Have fun! The dragons were kept away by the snow storm and then the attack the the ice dragon. Jon was in that dragon fight and then he attempted to get the Night King and/or back to Bran. Bran was the bait, he did warg into the crows and it will be interesting to see if this has a point in a future episode.
You have to remember, this episode wasn’t Brans or Jons. In the end it was a long Arya plot episode.
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I agree that the darkness was an issue, but I brightened it up at the beginning and generally loved the episode.
I also agree that the military tactics may not have been the best - I completely missed the fact that the reason that the dragons just spent the whole episode flying around rather than supporting the troops on the ground was supposed to be a hangover from them getting lost in the snow storm - but it did lead to some great visuals, mostly around the fall of the Dothraki
I loved the view of their flaming swords from afar as they lead their charge and then the view from the remaining troops as their specs of fire were gradually snuffed out without any real knowledge of why or how.
Equally, I enjoyed the fact that I realised albeit briefly that Arya was going after the Night King and was up for killing (“Blue eyes” staring back in the darkness) but then ended up forgetting about her due to the focus on everyone else until she came flying through the mist.
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Cavalry - everyone knows that the main reason they charged like they did was money. Keeping the horses around for a long time would be expensive, and shooting extended horse battle scenes would be time-consuming. So, charge them and kill them off early doors, sorted. It would’ve been nice to have a better in-universe explanation, though. Is this normal Dothraki cavalry tactics? Its been so long since we’ve seen them, I forget. Not firing the trebuchets until after the cavalry charged was bone-headed, as was only firing them once. Could this be because the Dothraki charge was unexpected and caught them out?
Dragons - keeping the dragons hidden was probably sensible, actually. If they’d been active early doors, the bulk of the undead army would’ve no dart held back while the White Walkers played ice javelin darts with the dragons. So hiding them until the enemy had already entered the killing fields wasn’t an unreasonable tactic. Apparently they also entered the fray earlier than expected due to Dany being upset about the loss of the Dothraki army. What largely negated them was the wind and fog, which I don’t think anyone expected.
Grey Worm - he should’ve held the line with the rest of the Unsullied, that’s true. I think perhaps the showrunners are too attached to characters now and reluctant to kill them off. Also possibly in Grey Worm’s case, they didn’t want to have Dany completely isolated for the last episodes?
Why no dragon glass on parapets? Time and resources. We see every spare piece of dragonglass being made into weapons and they look like they’re working 24/7 to do so. Could assume that after arming everyone there was none left to spare. It would’ve taken a lot to effectively cover the walls, and a lot of time too. The same applies to the question of why no boiling oil, or other things people have mentioned. It feels better to think they were lacking because Winterfell lacked the resources.
Lyanna was a badass who wanted to fight on the front line with the rest of the army. No-one’s going to bodyguard anyone there. She had to stand on her own two feet, and it was her choice to do so.
Melisandre - this was her Gandalf moment. The lady’s all about the prophecy and everything. She would’ve arrived when she did because the Lord of Light would’ve told her that was precisely the time she was needed to be there. It’s not out of keeping with her other appearances also. Also there were a number of other characters who would have good reason to want her dead, so it wouldn’t have been in her interest to turn up early.
I can see what they were trying to do in the episode and I appreciate it on that level. The story it is telling, I can’t fault that really. But the execution let it down. I would’ve liked better in-story reasons for some of the events that were clearly unfluenced by production factors (the cavalry; where are the wolves?; weaker aspect of defences). The biggest issue I had was the shakeycam and the cutaways. There was too much reliance on ‘shot of character(s) being overwhelmed - cut away - cut back and they’re still alive!’. It felt like the director struggled with the balance of showing the force of the undead but also making sure the defenders lasted out the episode. I mean, after the first charge, you’d think it would all be over in 10 minutes! I think Hardhome presented a very similar scenario a lot better.
Biggest disappointment really, for me - not enough deaths. That so many major characters survive detracts from the weight and importance of the battle. I mean, by my count more people died when Cersei blew up the Sept of Baelor, which is mad. The biggest battle should come with the biggest consequences. I suspect had GRRM got here first, there would’ve been a lot more death, as he’s much better at not letting what people call ‘plot armour’ get in the way of offing someone. For example, I honestly thought one of the Lannister brothers would die, but it feels like Tyrion was kept around because he’s got to meet Bronn again (among other things), and Jaime was kept around because everyone expects him to meet Cersei again. Grey Worm, as mentioned, should be dead. Sam should be dead. Ser Davos should be dead. Someone should’ve died in the crypts. Brienne, Tormund, Podrick, the Hound, they shouldn’t have all survived - in the case of the latter, no matter how much people want Cleganebowl to happen, the combination of fire and the undead should’ve carried more weight. tl;dr, one of the most appealling things about GoT was the brutality and fearlessness in killing off characters (Ned, Oberyn, etc), and that aspect is sorely lacking.
Non-spoilery comment - I appreciate the story told by this episode. It did its job in moving things on, and there are moments I really enjoyed. But as an episode in and of itself, I doubt I’ll find myself going back to it in the same way that I go back to Hardhome.
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